Lee Warren:

Welcome. Let’s just take a couple of breaths together. 

Just be with sort of immense miracle that we can feel each other across time and space in a pretty significant way sometimes on this platform that we’re breathing the same air and we’re standing on the same earth. The water that flows through all of us is the water that flows on the planet. Yes. And for the moment we are all ignited by life force, that we are all ignited by the fire of our own existence. And that won’t always be true. 

So here we are in the same space, equally ignited by life force together. So that’s a pretty special time. Thank you all for being here. 

So Mary and I are hosting this session because we felt that talking about death might seem daunting to folks who haven’t done it before. And maybe the course is compelling or inviting or interesting on some level, but the question about who we are and what the flow is like and the pace and style and flavor and tempo of the course might not be super apparent from the write ups. So we wanted to give an opportunity to drop in a little bit and give a little taster of who we are and how we hold this and what are the kinds of things we think about and talk about around these topics and what the modules might look like and what you might get out of this. So we just are given this opportunity so we can share a little bit and be lovely to hear from some of you all at some point, especially if you have questions. And that’s our intention, this is just be together in this liminal space. Do you want me to start with an overview, Mary, or would you like to go ahead? 

Mary Lane:

You’re already on a roll. 

 

Lee Warren:

So I guess I’ll just start with a couple of quotes. And one from Ram Dass, the beloved Ram Dass who lived in a very challenging body for a very long time, had a long life and had a lot to say about death. And the quote from Ram Das is “we are all just walking each other home.” We are all just walking each other home. And how you interpret home in this case can be this moment, this life, this expression can be death, can be transitions, can be any of those things. Yes, and another beautiful quote that I love, that we have on our web page as we describe this course is the quote from Richard Rudd which says “the only security in life comes from facing our death.” “The only security in life comes from facing our death.” 

 

And in fact, in some ways Mary and I have been talking about this lately. Like the thing that keeps us really wound up in life, the thing that keeps us really afraid in life and really anxious in life is actually pushing away this fear of death. And so it’s been sort of our journey, mary’s journey in her own unique way and my journey in my unique way, to come to this relationship with the inevitability of our own death as a fuel, as an actual fuel for inspiring aliveness some really big paradox. 

 

But this idea that as I contemplate and as I’m present with and as I am fully aware of my own inevitable death, there’s something in it, there’s some magic in it that I can’t fully explain, that I am catalyzed into so much gratitude and so much aliveness. So that was sort of the impetus for our creation. This invitation for internal preparation is sort of the subtitle of the walking towards a good death. And we can prepare at any age, in any stage, right? Whether we’re touched by illness, whether we’re not, whether we’re touched by someone’s death in our lives at least close to us or not, those things will all be true and not true at some point. 

 

So really, the invitation is for anyone who wants to step on a sort of mystical, sacred inquiry, a process of mystical sacred inquiry. And we’ve broken the course into four sections, and we do 2 hours per week. So it starts on November 7, does the 14th, the 21st, and the 28th. 

 

The first week is the topic of letting go. This idea of, you know, we’ve all had cycles in our lives of lots of letting go by the time we reach adulthood, and many of us are well into adulthood, we understand the life death life cycle. We understand the process of having to let go. And in some of those instances, we do it gracefully, and in others of those instances, we do it kicking and screaming. And that’s just the human experience. And so we really look at and contemplate these transitions we’ve been through in our lives and the transitions that we’re facing, and we sort of look at the template or the model for what does letting go feel like in our bodies? What does it look like? What does it look like to other people? What does it look like at our best? What does it look like at our worst? How do we really sort of wrap ourselves around this idea of letting go? What is it? How can we get familiar, right? 

 

There’s an intimacy to this course that is runs through everything you’ll hear, which is how do we get intimate with the actual practice, the art, the practice, the contemplation of letting go? Yeah, so that’s the first week I see your question, Gail. I’ll get to it. I’m in a little mystical mindset right now. I will get to the practical logistics in a minute. 

 

Week two is the topic of soulfulness. And this is an interesting one because many of us come from different traditions, religious and spiritual, atheist backgrounds, whatever it is. But there’s a sort of spark, right? We sort of mentioned that what do we call that? Spark, soul, self, spirit, essence, god, divinity, inner wisdom, inner voice, consciousness, guidance, neurochemicals. There are many, many ways to hold this sense of we are more than the body, right? And is this an internal part of us? Again, we all use different language, but this idea, this question of regardless of who surrounds us at the moment of our death, our death is really a one on one relationship. It’s really a one on one practice. And the truth is we all die alone, right? And it’s really a process of being with the self and our divinity or whatever word that we want to use. It’s us and our soul that’s really who is present at the moment of our death. And so what does that relationship look like? What is our relationship with our own essence look like in our lives so that we can sort of turn up the volume of that. Turn up the heat of that. Turn up the light of that. So that we can really get a sense of that relationship throughout our lives. In our day to day lives. In the moments. In the moments. The highs and the lows of our lives. So that we are familiar and we’re related and we’re intimate with this part of us. So that as we journey towards our, again, inevitable death, we have a strong relationship with that being in us, that part of us that we’re going to take that journey with. So that’s week two. Do you have any thoughts about that, Mary? Or you want me to keep doing an overview? 

 

Mary Lane:

Go ahead and do an overview so that it’s all together and we’re not going to place with it. 

 

Lee Warren:

Great. Yeah. 

 

So week three is the topic is presence, right? And we start off with this acknowledgement that being human is very tender. It’s tender for all of us and we’ve all had heartbreak and pain and we do a lot to really protect those places. And yet what does it look like to be present with the full spectrum of life, right? Many of us are probably on some sort of sacred path where we ask those questions like how to be present. And being present is a prerequisite for receiving, which we’re going to talk about in a minute because that’s week four. So, you know, in the process of figuring out where we are more easily present or where we’re less easily present, we can really examine that in our lives. Is there trauma there? Is there shadow? Is there conditioning? Is there belief systems there that allow us to contract? And what are the tools that help us live? A more expansive practice that allows us to be present with all that is even the hard stuff? 

 

And then week four, is this sort of contemplation about receiving, right? Because this is also a paradox at the moment of our well, in the process of living into living into life, living into death. In that process we are going to need, if we want to have a good death, we are going to need to learn to really receive. Receiving is the key. It’s the key to pleasure, it’s the key to intuition, it’s the key to wisdom, it’s the key to a nourishing connected life receiving. And we have a culture that when we talk about the Yin and the Yang, these two forces, we have a very young culture. The idea is we want to play tennis into our ninety s and we want to live on our own, and we want to do all the things we did when we were 20. And there’s value, there’s wisdom in that. We keep our bodies healthy and take care of ourselves and be active into our aging process. All there’s such wisdom there. And yet, as Mary will likely talk about, we don’t often hear the wisdom from the softer side, from the inside, from the more deeply feminine side, if you will, which is what does it look like to really surrender, really trust, really receive, really open to life? And how do we practice a bigger capacity for that? 

 

Because the quality of our receiving is going to determine the quality of our dying. So how do we balance that young wisdom with that yin wisdom? So we’re going to explore these pieces, and this is done in a supportive community. We’re in community with this process on Zoom. And we do some breakout rooms. We do some whole groups and there’s no quote unquote homework. But there is an invitation. An encouragement to be in a sort of. Again. Deep contemplation and a sacred enquiry about each of these topics for the entire week following the class. For journaling. For talking with the inner world. For being in nature. Because these are all pathways to a stronger relationship with self and the divine. So I will do some logistics, but let me stop there and see if Mary wants you want the ball toss, Mary? 

 

Mary Lane:

Sure. Thank you, Lee. I think I’d like to take this into the realm of for me, it has been so much around the reclamation of this balance of the Yin and the young and bringing the feminine back and the feminine wisdom back into my life over many years. And as I’ve done that, what I realized is that I’m riding these waves of the life and death cycle all the time. And it is totally the better I get at that, the more present I am, the more I am really seeing myself on a soul level, on a journey, as a soul that is traveling, evolving, growing. 

 

And so what I realized is these principles, like I’m And when Lee and I started talking about doing this, I realized that these principles that just kind of we were downloaded with these four principles, was really the principles that I have needed to and over time cultivated a stronger relationship to ride these waves of transformation through life. That has supported me to let go and go through kind of a death as the death of a situation, the death of a relationship relationship, the death of an identity, the death of a conditioning and a belief structure. It doesn’t matter what it is. 

 

So as we’re talking about, yes, we’re walking towards a good death and this is all going to support everyone at the end of life. What I’ve really come to realize is that this is what really supports me to live life in a way that I am on a sole path of evolution and I have to be cultivating all four of these principles. And if you want to connect the dots, it actually is preparation and practice that the better I get at living my life this way, the better my death is going to be because I really need all of these at the end of my life. And so we’re not talking about cultivating these principles just for the death of our bodies and the end of our lives. This is a way of living that supports our continuation of our soul’s growth in this incarnation. And so what’s interesting about it is what’s good for death is also good for life. 

 

And what I realized is that in the past, before the feminine was brought in, because she is the one that can step into the unknown, she is the one that can receive the deep guidance from within. She is the one that connects us to our soul, if you want to call it that. And so this is but over time. We had a really incredible workshop last year over the four weeks and we thought, wow, that was really, really cool. But over the last year for both Lee and I, we have integrated this more and more, deeper and deeper and it had a profound effect on our lives. 

 

So we’re not talking about just walking towards a good ultimate death, we’re talking about practicing with these principles that supports us to let go of everything that we do not want to be hanging on to when it comes time for the death of our body. And so it’s like it supports us to live a fuller life, feel more alive, but also be more empty handed when we’re ready to leave where we’re not still hanging on to all of these things that just don’t serve us any longer and makes for a challenging death. I’ve seen it over and over again as a death duela that’s the piece that I really wanted to bring in is that you can’t separate this out basically. Does that make yeah. 

 

Lee Warren:

Thank you, Mary. Mary came up with some really beautiful questions and in the sort of flavor of how we do this course, it’s I just keep coming back to the sacred inquiry process because who knows who knows about anything, and the deep mystery that is death and the deep, deep gift that that is for us. Right? So I’m going to paste these questions in the chat for you, but she was sharing them today as we were talking about this, which is, how can we learn to trust the letting go process more? Do we walk through life from a soul driven perspective? How can we be present in our death if we aren’t present in our life? And if we can’t let go of what no longer serves us, how can we receive what’s next for us, what our soul is calling us for? 

 

And I know Mary was talking about the profound impact. I think for me, I was sharing this with someone today. Actually, that what this course, which we taught for the first time in February and March, this is the second time, so it’s been a good part of a year. What it’s done for me is that in the multiple times a day that I think about my death in the midst of my busy life. In the multiple times a day that it crosses my mind that I’m going to die. Instead of being filled with fear. I’m filled with a surge of gratitude and a surge of aliveness and a surge of reminding myself that I can be uniquely and exquisitely enjoying this moment. And I’ve never had that experience with any other spiritual teachings or any other encouragements or any other meditation. I just for me, personally, it’s death that opens the door for me that is like, oh, right, god, here I am in this moment. It’s never going to happen again. Let me feel it. Let me be with it. 

 

Mary Lane:

I think that’s a really good point, because the same thing is happening to me and that really honed it in our last course, is being very conscious of this will end. There is a death all the time that is happening. And so instead of the resistance to letting go because I don’t want it to end on and on, what it’s making me do is walk through life of going, this has an expiration, this will end. And so really receive it. It supported me to be able to receive life more and more. The knowing that, grab it while you can, because this will pass, this will move through, this will die in some form or another. And so I think that what it’s done for me, it has made me more alive. Just like Lee said, with the gratitude, I want to be grateful for every every experience much more than I used to. I took so much for granted. I look back sometimes and I went, if I had treated that chapter in my life knowing very conscious that it will end, instead of treating it like there, you know, it’ll last forever, I would have really embraced it much more than I did and not take any of it for granted. 

 

And I think that’s the really big piece that has happened for me in looking at this and really bringing the inquiry in and you know, anytime you take something out of the closet and you’re not using up life force to push it away and to keep from embracing it, you’re more alive. So that’s another thing that I really feel like this has supported me to do. I want to be fully alive, fully human, fully instead of bungee jumping at 74. I want to feel alive from the inside out. That’s the aliveness I want to feel. That’s what I want to die with, not sliding in off of a bungee cord. 

 

Lee Warren:

Well, I’ll answer a few logistical questions and then we can sort of open it up and just talk and answer questions. Here from you all the recording dale asked about the recording. So I can say how I hold this and Mary can add her thoughts. Which is if someone asks if they’re going to miss all four classes and can they catch them on recording. My answer usually is you might want to wait until it happens again so that you can attend live. At least most of them. Because there is a special synergy that comes from us all being in the mystery together that. Yes. We will record. And our policy for recording is that we put out the audio only and not the video because we’re in such a beautiful liminal space that we want to really protect what was there in those moments. And so the audio is what we publish and Mary turns the audience, she does that part, she turns the audio around pretty quickly. So it seems to me like folks are going to miss one. That’s reasonable, but I think you really just need to check in with yourself. 

 

And I really like to encourage people to take the month of November as an opportunity to go into this topic on multiple levels. Right. This course can be a foundation or a catalyst for that, but you also might want to bring it into your meditation or your contemplation on a daily basis. This is the kind of inquiry that the more you put into it, the more you’re going to get out of it. And that these four weeks are four pillars. But there’s so much to unpack in each of these topics that we can do on our own. Or if we have a friend in the course. Or if we make a friend in the course. We can have a call during the week and we sort of suggest that people might want to buddy up or take it on your walk in nature once a week. Where this is the question you’re asking yourself. This is the mystery that you’re sitting in. 

 

So really I love that it’s all happening in the month of November, which sort of starts off at the beginning of the month, where in many traditions. They say the veils are thin, this is the Day of the Dead, this is SAMHAIN, this is Halloween, this is the entering of, in some traditions, the new Year or the deep belly of the year. And so I think the way to approach this month is as a sacred journey for yourself. And then you’ll have to just sort of feel and do. How does it feel okay to miss and hear the recording in one or more of those? I think we’re going to leave that in your heart to decide, but also sort of encourage a level of presence and drop in. Because this is not a lecture. We’re offering something, but we are building the synergy of the group together. Mary, do you have thoughts about that? 

 

Mary Lane:

You know, what? I really do would like to add that this isn’t a podcast either. In joining us, there’s something about and because we’re working with presence, plan on being present. Plan on and not have the camera off while you’re cooking dinner and taking care of kids and doing this and doing that. Being present and really showing up is, I feel like an important piece as well. You really want to be able to be able to sit down and be with us. There’s something that happens and you might as well start practicing presence with the class because this is part of what is coming through as a very critical piece in how this inquiry goes and how the journey goes. 

 

I will say also that for some, I’m still unpacking it. It didn’t stop when the course was over. And I’m really excited about going deeper when we do the course this second time. And so it’s one of those things where you could take if you really want to take this and cannot be here and can only listen, I would like to encourage you to not have it be the only time you do it. Take it as this is like an introduction. This is on a particular level that you can take it in and then digest it over several months and then take it again. Like Lee and I are actually taking this again, to go deeper with it and give your self an opportunity to go deeper with it. So that would be my suggestion. If you really just want to listen to it, the recording is plan on taking it to a much deeper level and not have it be the only time her and I are excited about, actually. We’re taking this course along with offering it, really. And we’re excited about going deeper. 

 

Lee Warren:

Yeah, because we didn’t mention this, but we really aren’t deaf experts because we haven’t done it yet. So we’re on the ride with you all asking the same questions. And I will say we have created a sliding scale fee structure that goes pretty low and is the whole range. And then we also have, if you scroll down to the lower part of the page. We have a previous attendee sliding scale structure which goes even lower. So what Mary is saying is if you’ve taken the course once, we make it really accessible and really affordable to take it again. And some of the folks that were with us in February, March are going to take it again as well because it’s a contemplation and you can just keep going deeper. It doesn’t end right. So let’s open it up. If folks have thoughts, comments, questions, you have questions for us, our backgrounds, whatever. What’s alive for you all as you hear this, as you obviously felt drawn to being here, you can.

 

Participant:

unmute gail, I’m going to speak up right now. I really want to do this, and I want to do it fully, but I can’t because I can’t do it starting at 04:00. So rather than it sounds like you’re going to do it again. And I think that I’m going to sign up for the next time rather than trying to rush home from work and trying to get into the right mind frame and then only have it for an hour. So I appreciate that you’re going to do it again. And I’ll keep looking for it, and it sounds like it’s going to be just really what I’d like to do. Thank you so much. 

 

Lee Warren:

Yeah, we’ve gotten some feedback that doing it on a weekend. The last time we did it was a Friday. Then we tried a Monday, and then I’ve heard from other folks like, hey, could you do it like on a Sunday evening or something? So the next time we do it, we might shift it to that so that just like, it hits different populations, availability. And I value what you’re saying, which is you don’t want to stress yourself out to try to sink into a really heartful, soulful place like that’s not a good combination. No. Thank you. Who else? Anyone else? What’s alive for you? What’s on your heart? It’s on your mind? 

 

Participant:

I’ll say something and I apologize. I joined a little bit late and I actually didn’t get the first weekend. What is the theme for the first weekend? Letting go. Oh, letting go, okay. I think you did say that at some point later. Thank you. So it’s interesting, what I’m hearing is, well, first of all, it’s four to six, correct? Yeah. I have a feeling I’m going to want more time. Like the 2 hours, it just sounds so rich and that just to stay in the I know it’s not going to be all dialogue, but sounds like such an amazing, unique and rare opportunity. The other thing that I’m present to is mostly, mostly I talk to other people about their relationship with death and dying. And it’s great. I mean, I’m able to do that. I’m able to have them be empowered and peaceful through our conversations. But I really see an opportunity here for me to look at this for myself and then have even that much more presence to offer to them. So I really, really see how this could fill in the gaps that I, you know, that I am not even aware of. Like, I haven’t even been present to those gaps because I haven’t asked those questions. So yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate you going through the questions and the weeks, and I really see something available for myself. 

 

Participant:

Yeah, I appreciate I don’t know if you’re a counselor or therapist, you have a little bit of that vibe, but that idea, I love that to build on that idea of, like, someone had asked me, like, well, someone in my life is dying. Would this course help me help them? And my response was, the course is for you and for your journey. But that’s always what helps others, right? When we get an energetic awareness and an energetic intimacy and a deep relationship with something, we can show up in a whole new way process for everyone’s process. Right. It’s only the depth and the breadth of which we’re able to ask these questions in us that allows the space for others to start to be curious as well. 

 

Participant:

I just got chills when you said that. Yeah, it’s really wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. 

Just a logistical question, actually. How many people are in the course? 

 

Lee Warren:

Well, we are right now at about 16 folks, and there may be ten more ish somewhere in there. Okay, great. It’s an intimate group. We ride the mystical waves together, the magic carpet, as they would say in Shamanism. Right. We’re riding in the airwaves of the mystical and that’s still point that is in some ways the place to practice being good. 

 

Participant:

Thanks. I’m going to go on mute. Thanks for your comment. Thank you. 

 

Mary Lane:

I will follow up by saying that as somebody who does support people who are supporting a loved one to die and also supporting people to die. The more that I have gotten really comfortable with my own journey around death. The more I can bring this energy of a peaceful energy to the situation and to the moment and to the last part of the journey of the dying process for not only the person who is dying. But the loved ones. I’m much more able to just be present and at peace with what’s happening. And that supports everyone involved to be able to go through the process, not just the dying person, but the loved ones, to be more at peace. 

 

Lee Warren:

Yeah. I teach another course, the End of Life Paperwork course, which is a bit of a sister course to this one, because it’s an external preparation for death by what is the kind of paperwork, what are the kinds of things we want to think about right upfront in that course? I get it right out of the way, right in the beginning, and I say, here’s. My bias. This is where I’m going to be coming from. And everything I talk about, which is death is a gift. Yeah. And it’s the biggest gift we will give in our lifetimes. It is the biggest contribution we will make. And to be living in so fully in that mindset, to have experienced that so fully with the dying, to have received enormous gifts, enormous gifts from the dying and the death process and the community around death, that sometimes I get a glimpse or I get a notion or I get a whiff of something coming from maybe the larger culture that says death is to be feared. And I get surprised because I live so fully in the worldview that death is a gift. And so my hope and that’s been my own inner journey, right? That’s been my own integration. And I just say, here my hope, is that that is the thing that rubs off, right? That is my agenda, if you will, that is my agenda is that whoever benefits in our culture from the fear machine, because we have a lot we have a fear machine in almost every area of our cultural experience. Whoever benefits from that, it’s done a great job because it’s rampant and it seems to be the sort of status quo. And I can tell you for sure that’s not where Mary and I live with it. And the transformation that occurs when we can step out of death is to be feared into death as a gift is nothing short of life changing. 

 

Mary Lane:

Yes, it’s probably the most lifechanging thing there is. I think underneath of a lot of the other fears is the fear of death. And I, for one, really do want my death to be a gift, not only to my beloveds around me, but the energy I’m carrying when I leave my body and how it radiates out. I want it to be my last parting gift. It doesn’t happen by not thinking about death until it’s right there in front of you. It happens as a result of walking a path that is constantly embracing that death is woven into life. There is no getting around it. There is no denying it. And it’s, in a way, reclaiming my death is this old lady’s form of activism. I am reclaiming my death. You cannot take this away from me. I will not have it. That’s kind of how I’m approaching this. 

 

Lee Warren:

You’re going to rabble rouse everyone to get on board? 

 

Mary Lane:

No, you can’t have it. It’s mine.

Does anybody have any other questions? 

 

Lee Warren:

Lynnie, go ahead.

 

Participant:

Hey. Hi, everybody. So good to talk with you all. And listen, don’t worry about not rubbing off. Honestly, I’m sure you’re going to. It does really feel like the next thing after your first course, it seems like just the only other place to go is in. So count me in for sure. And I find myself often thinking about my own death too. And I usually find myself on many given days saying, wow, this day, this glorious day, is one that I’m going to wish for someone day. I really want to get a hold of it, which is part of what you’re saying. And the other really potent part, I think I’m really already looking forward to week four about receiving, which is just like an impossibility for most of us. So yeah. Thank you, upfront thank you. Lenny? 

 

Participant:

Yeah, I think if I could jump in, I’m kind of, I guess, embarrassed to say this question, and I’m sure you’ve heard it and thought about it anyway, and it feels to me as if for me, it isn’t death that I fear. It’s the end of the life. To me, I feel like I know that it will be a good thing, it will be something very wonderful when I leave this body, but the things that may get me there may not be so wonderful. So I’m guessing that that’s part of the letting go, right? 

 

Mary Lane:

For me, it’s also the part of, as I’ve shifted to witnessing myself more on a soul driven journey here, when things come up that feel challenging, you know, instead of me resisting and being a victim to it or what did I do wrong, I’ve changed to the question, how does this serve my soul’s evolution? And so that I can turn that into, I’m being offered a gift. How do I unwrap this gift? And it has helped me a lot in writing all these waves of this massive transformation we’re going through collectively that a lot of us are really up against, a lot of challenges and things that we have to let go of, that we’re being asked to let go of. This is the question I’m always asking myself, how is this supporting my souls growth, evolution, so that I can receive it as a gift? 

 

Lee Warren:

Yeah. Denise, thank you. Mary, thank you for that response. And Denise, thank you for that beautiful, vulnerable share. And I really feel some really important pieces in that. And Mary and I have toyed with turning this into a ministry school, a nine month mystery school, because we think, like, how could you ever touch on all of the pieces to touch on in four weeks, right? And then there’s, like, zoom fatigue and cost and expense and how do we do this? But one of the things I want to speak to that you are touching on, which is how do we grieve and how do we grieve this life? Right? If we’re going to put down anything, if we’re going to let go of anything there, and if we’ve loved it and we’re sad to lose it, what is the grief inherent in that loss? Right? And how do we express our deep love and desire and fear of that loss? By bringing our tears, metaphorical, energetic, real tears, to the process of letting go. And so we’re not suggesting that we walk out of this life without grief or that we walk into any death, like Mary saying, of a belief, of a paradigm, of a relationship, of a job, of all of the small deaths that we go through, how do we walk with grief in one hand, right, and delight in the other? And I think these are deeper concepts, right? You’ve just pegged you just put your finger right, on a deeper, more advanced concept that is going to be flowing through these weeks. But if we were to add a week or two weeks or whatever, the grief would be up there, it would be the next piece because it’s sort of involved in letting go. But it deserves its own time, right? And Mary and I have been sort of brainstorming this in person retreat that we want to do, which is this idea of there’s life and then there’s death and there’s separate things, right, versus no, they’re all the one thing. It’s all happening in every moment. This exhale that I take is never going to happen again. Right? It’s gone. And so that waves again, right? And so, yeah, I think you really put your finger on one component of the deep mystery, which is how do we grieve the things we’re losing and letting go? Thank you. 

 

Mary Lane:

Thank you. I want to add to that that it feels to me that just as much as we are in need of transforming our relationship with death, we really need to, as a culture, transform our relationship with grief as well. And it is something that is we don’t want to push that away anymore than we want to push death away. I just did an interview with somebody who is a grief worker this morning, and we talked about how grief also is such a deep gift of tapping it’s like going into the depth of our heart and really holding our heart when we are able to feel that deep grief. And there’s been times where even in the deep grief, I have felt gratitude for being able to feel on such a deep level. And so I want to be able to embrace and celebrate the grief as well. I feel like that’s a piece to it as well. 

 

Lee Warren:

Yeah. I mean. You got us going here. Denise. Because I love this question and there’s like deeper and deeper layers keep coming to me. Which is I know that when I have had a hard time letting go. It’s when something has happened that has involved shock and trauma and that I’ve been frozen and frozen in this thing that has happened to me that I didn’t want to happen to me. And I couldn’t grieve and I couldn’t move on. And it was like this sort of stuck place in me. That’s sort of what came up. And I needed time and I needed space and I needed support to really go through those sort of layers to this sort of core, which is this thing happened and I didn’t want it to happen and I didn’t have any control and I didn’t have any power. And so I think, wow, we could unpack letting go for an entire year just from the question you just asked. We could unpack that forever. Right? It’s so rich. So rich. 

 

Mary Lane:

But we’re trying to keep from giving people indigestion because you can only digest so much without really getting colic. So that would be something that at some point, I think Lee and I are going to take what we’re doing in these four weeks and then deepen it into level two where once we’ve done this, then we can drop into more indigestible bites.

 

Lee Warren:

Beautiful. Other thoughts, other questions, other comments, other reflections? Contemplations? 

 

Just feel the energy in this space right now. Just feel how we’ve all deepened in this 1 hour together. I can see you all. I can feel us all. This is what happens when we talk about death. Something the portal opens and we are all more deeply in our bellies, more deeply in our breath, more deeply together with each other. This is a real, actual taste of what it’s like to do this journey together. We are more here. 

 

Mary Lane:

Does anybody feel in the least bit uplifted by bringing death out of the closet and by just having just this conversation? 

 

Participant:

100%. I’m dancing in the streets that there are people who like talking about this topic. 

 

Mary Lane:

It’s amazing. People think that it’s so morose and a downer, but every time I come together with people and we talk about death and bring that out of the closet, we feel uplifted. That’s the irony of it. 

 

Participant:

What I’m noticing is so this is one of my favorite topics. It’s funny to say that, but what I find is especially when I’m speaking to someone new well, I mean, not necessarily someone new, but I’m speaking to someone who hasn’t really had an opportunity to talk about death and dying. And my experience is going from something that’s like you’re in a monologue in your head. Even if it’s a different topic, it’s a monologue in your head. And with this topic especially, there aren’t a lot of people who want to talk about it. Like Denise says, like people on the streets, you’re not going to talk about that in the grocery store line or at a party. So it’s so freeing. That’s what I’m experiencing here. It’s so freeing to bring that monologue to dialogue. And I do believe when you said the portal opens, it is like this new space. It’s a new space that is created when we’re in dialogue. That’s what I’m noticing. So I’m just excited to be in dialogue now with all of us. I’m registered for November, but not everybody here is registered for November. 

 

Lee Warren:

No, because we offered a free Q and A for people to get to know us. Got you. Yeah, I need to tip my hat to Meredith, who’s on this call, who will totally talk to you about death at a party. Oh, great. I was going to say not at our parties. We talk about death all the time. Well, I feel like there could be a Dr. Seuss book about Meredith. She’ll be like she’ll talk to you about death on a train, in a plane, in a car. Meredith is like the death queen. Meredith, I wish we were doing this in person. I truly do. Meredith is a funeral director. Okay. Hope you don’t mind me calling you out, girl. 

 

Meredith Springs:

Oh, no. I love everything you say. 

 

Mary Lane:

Do you have anything you want to add, Meredith? 

 

Meredith Springs:

Yeah, just this week, had a really powerful conversation with my funeral. My mentor, who is the manager at the funeral home where I work and taught me how to be a funeral director, and his mother has recently been diagnosed with metastasized cancer that she just found out about. And he was really questioning all these things that we tell to families every day and how I talk about death and am I just full of shit? I mean, it was just like I mean, I love this person, and just seeing him going through that, we talked for hours. It just makes so much sense to me that how you react to death is how you react to anything, and that it is part of your life and that it is just such a rich and perfect thing to think about everything. So I think this is a great meeting. I think that you’ve really brought in a lot. I mean, Denise, you’re sharing was really beautiful. It made a big difference for me that this is what’s possible in having these conversations. And my stand as getting to participate in these kind of dialogues is that my stand is that it is a good thing to talk about death. And so it should be. It’s not like this terrible, painful experience or that maybe it’s painful, but, like, pain isn’t really so bad. I mean, it’s just like another feeling. And so having feelings is all different kinds of feelings is wonderful. And so it’s wonderful to have these conversations to give yourself the opportunity. 

 

Lee Warren:

I remember when I first met you, Meredith. It was on a phone call, actually, not that long ago. And you were like, I’ll talk to I’ll talk to anybody about death bringing up anywhere, all the time. Or derves. 

 

Mary Lane:

Well, Lee is the queen of death jokes. 

 

Lee Warren:

Death jokes. If we add a 6th class, so if we add a fifth class, it’ll be on brief. If we add a 6th class, we’ll do death jokes the entire time. Desensitize ourselves. 

 

Well, beloveds, you have a real flavor and feeling. I have goosebumps. You have a real flavor and feeling of what this journey will be. So this is us. This is it. This is the mystery. This is the inquiry. And join us if you feel called. 

 

Mary Lane:

Thank you. And thank you for being called to come tonight. I appreciate you coming and just sitting with us tonight, even if you don’t join the course. It’s been wonderful to be with you and being able to drop in once again into this sacred space that death always creates. It’s a real sacred space. Thank you. 

 

Lee Warren:

Yeah. Blessings, everyone. So lovely to be with you. Thanks for showing up. And for those who are watching the recording, love to you, too. Thank you, sir. Everybody, thank you.